(no subject)

[rodneyscat]

So uhm, basically I'm scared shitless and I foolishly didn't expect this.

Thank you, to those LJ people who are residents of the USA and have shown me a side of the people in your country I wasn't all that aware of a couple of years ago. Fact of the matter is that because I've seen so many lovely, reasonable, intelligent, caring Americans around here, I kind of began to think you were in the majority.

I guess I was wrong.

Comments

[samena.livejournal.com]

I have the exact same feeling. I don't think I know a single person on LJ, or any other internet medium, wo didn't want to see Bush kicked out of office, and therefore I got the impression that everyone thought like that. My mind has been truly boggled today. I think I made a promise a while ago that if Dubya got re-elected, I'd eat my mouse-mat, or something like that. Well, bon appétit... *sad sigh*

[rodneyscat.livejournal.com]

Oh boy, at least I never made a promise like that!

[betterintype.livejournal.com]

looks like i'm moving to canada afterall... :(

[rodneyscat.livejournal.com]

It's going to be crowded in Canada it seems.

[peppersghost.livejournal.com]

Many of us in the US are boggled as well. We genuinely thought our fellow Americans were smarter than this. We also didn't anticipate that so many were so damned, doggedly conservative and ready to push their misguided view of "moral values" onto everybody else.

The only real consolation, ironic though it may be, is how deeply divided this country is - a real 50-50 split, though Bush is still claiming a mandate. I guess it's easy to think you have a mandate if you think God is 100% on your side. Who cares what half of your nation thinks?

[rodneyscat.livejournal.com]

I like to think the majority of the anti-bush half is more passionate about what they believe in than the half who is sheepishly following bush, so at least the people will keep a very critical eye on what he's going to say and do the next 4 years. In fact, I hope something will happen that will make he won't last those 4 years.

Then again, I've been hoping a lot of things that haven't come true, so it's a little difficult keeping to my usual positivity. It'll return though, I'm sure.

[thisside.livejournal.com]

Well, I think that in our LJ "community" we have surrounded ourselves by so many like-minded people that it's hard to comprehend that so many other people could believe differently. I think people at large are afraid of change and have different priorities than the younger and more educated people that tend to come to LiveJournal (I am saying this in general, I know there are exceptions everywhere). I think neither candidate was overwhelmingly moving, and when that happens (as happened in 2000) you get a result like this that is again going to be fought in courts and contested to the bitter end.

America has survived through worse. We'll survive through this.

[rodneyscat.livejournal.com]

A lot of what you say here makes me go 'exactly!', but this stuck out;

I think neither candidate was overwhelmingly moving

I must say I'm not so much pro-Kerry as anti-Bush.

It's weird seeing Marin Sheen in your icon. I asume that's him in 'West Wing'? I don't know what kind of man he plays in that, but that pic reminds me of him as a upcoming politician in 'The Death Zone': not the kind of guy you'd want to have in your icon! (No worries though, I'm probably the only one who makes that connection, because I'm not familiar with West Wing but I'm an avid Stephen King fan, and that movie is one of the few good adaptations of his books to screen imho.)

[tigertale7.livejournal.com]

You know, this is why there is supposed to be a separation of Church and State in this country. So that fundamentalist "christians" don't get eight years to fuck our country up in numerous ways because they "have God on their side."

I can't believe that this idiot will get another shot at GBLT folks. Already eleven states ban gay marriage and he isn't even re-elected. =P

That so many people in this country voted for another ten steps backwards in stead of one forward is disheartening. I'm with everyone else - almost everyone that I knew was voting Kerry so I guess I thought the rest of the country would as well. Then again, I live in one of the most liberal states in America, so...

Not for long, though, if Bush keeps this shit up. =(

[rodneyscat.livejournal.com]

I can understand how people who think like you feel like they want to move out, and I'm sure hardly anyone will actually make that step for numerous different reasons. And that's good, because I wouldn't want all the sane, critical and caring people to move elsewhere and leave the USA to the shallow, thick and mindbogglingly narrow minded people.

[iolanthe-rosa.livejournal.com]

Fact of the matter is that because I've seen so many lovely, reasonable, intelligent, caring Americans around here, I kind of began to think you were in the majority.

I'm a Californian. If you broke California away from the rest of the U.S., it would still be 5th largest economy in the WORLD. And this is a liberal place (Scwarzenneger notwithstanding). The entire state voted wholeheartedly Democratic. We have a big population, but not big enough to outweigh the rest of the country, unfortunately. Where I live, "reasonable, intelligent, caring Americans" are in the majority.

It's just, *sigh*. Well. I'm sorry. I feel really really ashamed.

[mirabile-dictu.livejournal.com]

What iolanthe_rosa said: In fact, I think California should secede, or at least the Bay Area should. I've heard that the Bay Area alone would be the seventh largest economy in the world. But we're isolated here, too -- I don't know a single person who will admit to voting for Bush. It's as though there were two Americas, and each is invisible to the other.

*weeps*

[foxykc.livejournal.com]

We're 49% of the population. That is a big number. That should be a big wake up call to Bush.

And a wake up call to whoever is the declared winner. He has our attention, not necessarily our vote.

[rodneyscat.livejournal.com]

You're absolutely right, just because he's re-elected (and only just!) doesn't mean everything is out of people's hands. He'll be president with a lot of people watching him critically. The USA still isn't a totalitarian state.

[monkey5s.livejournal.com]

I feel like I should go to every LJ of non-Americans that I can find, and apologize profusely for the sad, sad, sheep who voted Bush into office FOR THE FIRST TIME. Because, he did NOT win the popular vote in 2000.

But, try to imagine how we feel, knowing that the majority of people in our country do NOT cherish our representative democracy, and in fact feel that it SHOULD be replaced with a theocracy, and that it's perfectly FINE for the US to be the true evil of the world, replete with massive human-rights violations and ecological detruction. Because, that's what this election really means, when you get right down to it.

[rodneyscat.livejournal.com]

You don't have to apologize for anything. It's people like you who've made sure that Bush won only just and not with some vast majority. People like you are the critical eyes, who will watch him every move he makes. And he knows it, he must feel, must be aware that a huge group didn't want him there. Keep him on his toes please!

And preferably make him stumble.

[justinetre.livejournal.com]

I'm, totally there with you.. I mean, I don't know a single Bush supporter online, and yet look at the results...It's crazy

[rodneyscat.livejournal.com]

It's weird isn't it?! It really took me by surprise! All those people are so sane to me, it's hard to accept they didn't convince just about everybody! Especially since a lot of them have been pretty vocal about their believes (and I mean that as a good thing.)

[yanks02.livejournal.com]

I am baffled too. I mean, I actually thought we were going to get him out. But I'm from Texas, and I see the Bush mindset all the time. I'll be leaving here as soon as possible.

It's freaking amazing the way it is here today. People all excited that everyone outside the country now hates us even more. I hope if someone bombs us, they just skip over the people who have a brain.

[rodneyscat.livejournal.com]

That's the thing with bombs isn't it? They destroy everything and everyone and don't ask whose side you were on.

Not everybody outside the country hates the Americans, just half of the American population. The thing is that that half is almost proud of the fact it seems. I'm not a violent person but the times I've seen Bush voters puff out their chest saying 'we take our responsibility in this world' made me want to slap them them first and then talk some sense into them.

Not that they would listen.

[dahabibi.livejournal.com]

...I bet our Prime Minister (Balkenende) is pretty happy now.. he's already got his tongue way up Bush's ass, and it will only get worse, I presume.

*sigh*

Alas, poor Democracy. I knew it well.

[rodneyscat.livejournal.com]

You know the whole thing with Theo van Gogh really was too much for me the day of the election. Seeing those people stand in Amsterdam, that whole mass of them making lots of noise, the speech of the mayor. Those words 'I'll fight for your right to disagree with me', it really got to me.

I wasn't particularly fond of Theo, he's made me angry more than once, but it's not about being sad for the fact that he's dead (because if he'd died of a heart attack I would have said 'big deal' and moved on) but it's about this right to disagree, to speak your mind, to live the way you want to live and let others live their lives in their way, but with the right to critisize and question. Because that's a good thing!

Anyway, that's what's been keeping me busy these few days.

[alysscarlet.livejournal.com]

We live in our own little part of the internet, which thankfully is full of sane and intelligent people. Like you, I don't know a single person who voted for Bush.

But the sheep are obviously out there.... :-(

[rodneyscat.livejournal.com]

Yep, and obviously there are enough sheep to get Bush re-elected. Doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of sane and intelligent people out there though!

[http://users.livejournal.com/_riz/]

Yeah, the joke's on us.

It's like the liberal urban bubble that most of us in the Northeast and Northwest and California coasts live in... We tend to forget that the rest of this country is "the heartland" still and that they have just as much of a say in things as we do. I wish we'd just let them secede.

[rodneyscat.livejournal.com]

Reminds me of this (http://www.livejournal.com/users/elouisa/54068.html?#cutid2).

[sternentochter.livejournal.com]

that is exactly what i thought about on my busride home. i was really quite sure kerry would win, because who would vote for bush, really (i. don't. get. it.)? all the americans i know wouldn't.
and then they were interviewing people on the radio and they were all like americans are like this, americans are like that, and i just thought NO! they are not! i know americans who are different. well. bleh.

[rodneyscat.livejournal.com]

Exactly! I must say, before I became active on the internet, I had a pretty warped idea of what 'The American' was like. I'm happy to have met so many good people here, and I'm still sure a lot of the people who voted for Bush are basically good people too, they're just very misguided (there's always the group who votes for Bush because they're selfish, intolerant fools, but I like to think that group really is a minority).

[rebeccama.livejournal.com]

Living in California, it is hard to remember that our relatively liberal alcove is the minority. In the Bay Area and Los Angeles area even Republican candidates will usually be liberal on most social issues. (Of course parts of the North East are the same way.) If I look around me almost everyone supports gay marriage, is pro-choice, pro-separation of church and state (whether or not they are personally religious), concerned about the environment, and very anti-war in Iraq.

[rodneyscat.livejournal.com]

The USA is a huge country, and not as United as some would like to think. And that's good, because the way people like Bush think of a 'United' America, would be a disaster if it came true. You people keep being stubborn and devided, because it's a good kind of devided. Their 'United' means everybody the same, according to what people like Bush think is you should be.

[airgiodslv.livejournal.com]

Sometimes I forget that our voice isn't really the loudest. No matter how much we try to make it heard.

I'm sorry.

[rodneyscat.livejournal.com]

Don't apologize and don't stop making your voice heard, because it does matter! I understand this must be awfully discouraging though :(

[mariole.livejournal.com]

This is the first presendential campaign I have actually wept over. I couldn't believe that so many of my fellow Americans were bigoted, fearful people. I was proven wrong. I've been rapped sharply on the knuckles -- most of my fellow Americans prefer delusion to fact, soothing platitudes to doing something sensible. I canvassed, and met more hateful people than I had thought possible in my own neighborhood.

This is not the America of my childhood. I don't know what it is.

[rodneyscat.livejournal.com]

most of my fellow Americans prefer delusion to fact, soothing platitudes to doing something sensible.

It's only a minority by a hair's breadth, so there's still a huge group of people who think like... Ah, who think. Period.

[piratesorka.livejournal.com]

I guess you discovered that we are really a great big country of conservative right wing religious bigotted assholes.

[rodneyscat.livejournal.com]

That's what I always thought the USA was like, it's LJ people like you who've made me see not all of the population is like that. I just overestimated the amount of people who're like that. And I still believe in you lot!

[joomer.livejournal.com]

basically I'm scared shitless and I foolishly didn't expect this. My thoughts exactly.

I live in an uber-conservative state but dammit I voted anyway. I gave it a shot. Bush didn't win by a landslide. But that still doesn't make any difference. Not enough US citizens are ready for change. A lot of us are, but evidently not enough of us.


*crawls into fetal position*

[rodneyscat.livejournal.com]

It does make a difference! What if Bush had won with an overwhelming majority of votes?! No, you are still a group to take into account, you do matter, you still have a voice. Keep using that voice.

[juweldom.livejournal.com]

Okay you know what's really scary?

A lot of it is educational differences. The more educated often tend to vote democratic, unless there are financial or religious reasons for them to stick with Bush.

Cities, even in places like Ohio and Florida, tended to vote democratic. West Coast and East Coast, especially Northeast, voted democratic--the cultural centers, states with more global awareness and access. Urban? Democratic. Rural? Bush.

I live in Arizona, which has for years and years been a heavily Republican state--don't take away their church or their guns, basically (and we have a huge Mormon population who LOVE Bush and are quite bigoted and racist) Every election, I keep hoping we'll slowly move more Democratic, and we are, slowly--Kerry got 44%, which I think is better than what Gore did.

But what surprised me, I think is that the Hispanic population, who we'd all thought would vote for Kerry, actually tended to vote for Bush (maybe because of the abortian issue, being heavily Catholic?).

In short, the people I noticed voting for Bush tend to have less schooling, be more rural, and more religious.

Sheep.

*watches them go to the slaughter*

[rodneyscat.livejournal.com]

don't take away their church or their guns

Isn't something like that just mindboggling? Isn't that just the weirdest combination there is?

And yes, a lot of people who voted for Bush are people who will be directly influenced in a negative way by their own choice. They. Just. Don't. See. It.

[merilea.livejournal.com]

We have to keep in mind, that even in middle america where Republicans win, there is still a very sizable percentage of people who voted democratic. It's easy to forget this, because it wasn't enough to win. but almost enough Americans fervently disliked Bush enough to get rid of him. This is unusual for an incumbant (though his father lost his second term). So just as it's good for non-Americans to know that all Americans aren't rightwing conservative..it's heartening to remember that not all people in the red states are red. Ohio could have gone our way. The progressives in Ohio must really be weeping. They worked very very hard.
Which is something to keep in mind--the level of progressive activism in this election was amazing. Millions of People are mobilized. The ground effort was amazing. If we can keep it together and not all disperse over our of dismay, then Bush won't have a free ride through this term.....DON'T GIVE UP!!!

I also live in a very progressive and liberal minded area where you have to look hard to find a Bush supporter. You know when you walk down the street that almost everyone is suffering the same grief today.

If Air America--the fairly new progressive talk radio (features the Al Frankin show) is in your town, check it out. Its the answer to rightwing talk radio. I don't like all of the hosts, because I don't like the way right wing hosts talk, and I don't like it on the left either. But some are great--and it is entertaining and tough..and catching on. It just came to Seattle, so I'm still evaluating--but it was nice to listen to friends on the morning after (though I won't give up my NPR!)

[rodneyscat.livejournal.com]

The ground effort was amazing. If we can keep it together and not all disperse over our of dismay, then Bush won't have a free ride through this term.....DON'T GIVE UP!!!

Hear, hear!! I understand the outcome of this election must be extremely discouraging, but it's not like all hope is lost and because Bush is president there's nothing those opposing him can do. Please, keep breathing down his neck.

[princessofg.livejournal.com]

thank you for knowing america is really us and not them. except them ARE us. like pogo said. but what i mean is, i want us to be the good guys again. we have to start acting like us again.

you know????

[txvoodoo.livejournal.com]

I had hoped we were at least a 51% majority. :(